With Artist Matt Snyder
The Tate Museum says “The term underground art is used to describe a subculture of art, like graffiti art or comic strip art. Wiki says ” any form of art that operates outside of conventional norms in the art world, part of underground culture.
Resa – Matt, what do you say to those definitions?
Matt – Either definition works. The wiki def is more encompassing to include **Poetry Chapbooks one of which I get in the mail & **Zines (which I was also part of in the 90’s) which surprisingly still exist.
It Began in a Time Warp
All I did was turn into an alley and was instantly transported into the past. The newest graffiti was 15 years old.
Underground Comix and Publications
Having recently had a comments chat with Matt about underground comix, I was like OH, Matt would love this alley. I sent him a couple of pix, Mr. Wonderful and the one below.
Matt – Oh cool, those look like the work of Ralph Bakshi & R.Crumb.
Resa– Matt, the R. Crumb work was obvious to me, but I honestly didn’t know who Ralph Bakshi is. I looked him up and was wide-eyed that he directed the Fritz the Cat movie and that Fritz is an R. Crumb character. I guess you knew that?
Matt – My life used to revolve around watching as many movies as I could, I was aware of Fritz the Cat the movie but because it was X-Rated it was never readily available in any movie rental house. Wasn’t until Blockbuster Video did mail rentals in 2004 when I finally had a chance to see Fritz and other cool controversial Bakshi films like Coon Skin & Heavy Traffic.
Resa – When did you discover these 2 artists? How did they influence you?
Matt – In regards to Bakshi, I had a book called The Psychotronic Encyclopedia of Film from the 80’s that introduced me to a lot of films that were far from mainstream, and I remember reading about Fritz the cat. This same book introduced me to the early films of John Waters, too.
As for Crumb maybe the late 80’s early 90’s ? I used to frequent comic shops and had an extensive collection of mainstream & underground comix. The underground comix were tucked away and you had to ask to see them. I bought a few that featured the work of R. Crumb.
I can’t pinpoint how these artists were an influence. Influence is strong word. I wrote a 3 part post on artists I admire but that’s not the same as influence. I suoppose there are times when I am trying to push the controversial button with some but not all of my work.
Resa – I loved The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers comix. Were you also a fan of Gilbert Shelton? Did his work have any effect on you?
Matt – I became a fan of The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers pretty recently. I just really dug the humour (pot head no less, coming from a never used square like myself)
Resa – You said you get a Poetry Chapbook in the mail . Is it a particular author or publisher? Do you consider online Chapbooks an underground art form?
Matt – I subscribe to punkpoet.net by an author/artist named JB who occasionally snail mails out haiku comics for free. I love getting old school mail. I’ve never come across an online chapbook, unless you mean a poetry blog but it can’t be on a platform like WordPress, it has to be it’s own thing.
There’s still lots happening with **Poetry Chapbooks. Click on the pile beside to learn a bit about them and their history!
Resa – So Matt, please tell us about your experience with Zines? If it’s online, is it still a Zine?
Matt – Again I suppose blogging could come across as a Zine but I don’t know I don’t see using the internet as a means of going against conventional methods to be considered underground in any way. In the 90’s I was active in submitting poetry to multiple small press poetry zines as well as publishing my own (which included comics and short stories as well as poetry.)
**Zine (short for “magazine” or “fanzine”) A self-published booklet created for personal expression. Their history spans from the 1920s Harlem Renaissance, to the 1970s DIY Punk scene, and beyond.
Matt – Sadly I don’t have any of the 6 issue run of “Toxic Shock and other abnormalities of the inner being.” Yeah, quite a mouthful for a title, it was co-edited with 2 different people the first 5 issues done in 1992 with Rob H. and the final 2 done in 1995 with Sara M.
*Some libraries collect Zines. The Boston Public Library has more than 945 Zines.*
Graffiti
“If the paint is not from a spray can, it’s not real art.”
Resa – Supercilious words from hard core graffiti artists, but when it comes to graffiti art and much wall art, I think there’s truth to that. What do you think about that, Matt?
Matt – As opposed to what, like a wheat paste up ? Is Graffiti truly art? I find myself drawn to character based graffiti over throw-ups and tags. Essentially I prefer what is known as street art, ya know.
Resa – Above is a pic of a bunch of tags and throw-ups, from Graffiti Alley. I look at the entire composition, and it looks like a community art piece to me. Does it look like art to you?
Matt – No, to me it looks hella sketch. Like I’d be looking over my shoulder every minute to make sure I wasn’t gonna get jumped.
A common classic style of graffiti art is writing, aka burners or lettering.
Resa – The building owners in Graffiti Alley welcome the graffiti. However, if it’s not welcome, if it’s vandalism, is it art? This includes tags, cartoons, lovely artworks or burners .
Matt – Vandalism is vandalism. Any unwanted piece is just plain wrong in my book. Does the crime deserve a hefty penalty to include jail time ? No I think it should be a misdameanor with a hefty fine. But again, vandal graffiti is definitely more befitting as being classified as underground.
Resa – If there is no underlying political message, is it “true” graffiti art?
Matt – I don’t see that as being a necessity to make it “true” art. Art is pretty subjective, ya know.
An artist acquaintance recently smacked a paste-up on my home. Paste-ups come in many styles.
Resa – I know it’s not on a wall, but I adore some of your art that seems a paste-up style. Am I right to think that, based on the examples below?
Matt – I suppose maybe you could say that about collage in general but I wouldn’t go as far as to say my work is a pasteup style, because I hadn’t heard of that term until I saw it on yours an another U K. graffiti blog I follow.
Resa – A lot of the alley graffiti artists are Tattoo artists by trade. Are tattoos underground art?
Matt – Tattoos were definitely once Underground, but not anymore. I don’t know when it shifted but I recall only shady characters had prison tattoos and with military personnel it seemed to be a right of passage. Eventually that shifted into metal/punk bands.
But now in the present ? It’s gone mainstream. Hell half the people at my job, which is mostly populated by women, all sport one or more tattoos.
I enjoy the images below. They convey a lot of movement, and feel like a fusion of graffiti street art (not graffiti tags & throw-ups) & cartoon art.
Many say AI will be the end of human created art forms for commercial purposes, and beyond.
Could survival instinct drive creators and their arts Underground?
I do not consider Murals to be graffiti art. I consider them to be wall art.
Resa – So, Matt, I found this mural the other day. The colours were fab, and I liked the Day of the Dead theme.
Resa – Something bothered me about the art, so I checked around on line when I got home. Turns out it’s an AI generated image printed on a film and applied to the wall. My heart sank.
Muralist Sarah Blostein quickly noticed inconsistencies. Elements like the teeth, hands & guitar strings looked like an algorithm created the work rather than a human artist.
Resa – My 2 part question is -In your opinion, (1) Can any of the arts and its creators survive AI on a commercial level? (2) Is there a possibility of a Renaissance Underground Art movement on the horizon?
Matt – I don’t freelance on a commercial level to be able to answer that question. As A.I. art is less than perfect, I initially was against it, but sometimes use it to accompany poetic work on my blog. As of now I don’t see it as a major threat. As for a Renaissance? Possibly if creators become fed up with how irrelevant they become.
Artists Who Matt Admires
Matt did 3 articles on artists he admired. I chose 4 who have not previously been mentioned in this article, and asked him to comment on them.
ROY LICHTENSTEIN
I was aware of Pop Artists when I was in high school in the 80’s. I was also an avid comic collector. I loved that Lichtenstein didn’t just recreate comic panels with his own wry humour in the thought & dialogue balloons of the character but he also recreated the dot printing process in large format. That aspect of his work made me interested in trying creative techniques. I wish I still had it But I did an ode to Lichtenstien Medium sized acrylic painting and injected my own weird sense of humor into the thought balloon of the woman in distress.
GARY LARSON
Larson’s The Far Side the petfect example of a twisted sense of humour. I’d say both my written and drawn sense of humour was derived from an appreciation of this short lived syndicated comic.
TIFFANY ARPDALEO
Tiff’s art I am in love with. I have a few prints as well as clothing of her abstracts. I tried abstract painting, but they always came out like a mess as opposed to a work of art. I wish I could lay down paint like she does. I am a super fan and super impressed by everything she does.
SALVADOR DALI
Dali being a surrealist was just the epitome of being weird in my opinion. But I didn’t just like his paintings I fell in love with the french surreal silent film he made with Luis Bunell. Un Chien Andalou or An Andalusian Dog. That scene of a close up of a woman’s eyeball being sliced with a straight razor, the sfx from that time period were incredible and a bit of an influence of the short films and animations I made.
Underground Films
Curious, I found Un Chien Andalou, and watched it.
Resa – So Matt, I enjoyed this 20 minute silent film. With all the death, blood and gore in so many popular action films, Iv’e been desensitized. Yet, the eyeball slicing scene is crazy shocking. Why do you think that is?
Matt– I think it’s because of the time period of which the film was made. Practical effects have always been superior to me over C.G.I. What (slicing the eye of a dead slaughterhouse cow) they used to create that illusion done in extreme close up no less, is quite jarring.
Resa – However, I’m not sure I understand the film. What do you make of it?
Matt – It’s meant to be nightmare. To push buttons in people. It is made without a narrative on purpose.
Resa – I searched underground films on line. I was shocked at the results: Pulp Fiction, Fight Club, The Matrix, Mulholland Drive and others I consider big budget films. What do you say to this?
Matt – I saw that so called list of ” Underground” films on IMDB.com but the true definition I found through further research is as follows:
Underground film refers to a category of motion pictures that diverge from mainstream commercial cinema, prioritizing personal artistic vision over broad audience appeal. Often characterized by low budgets and unconventional techniques, these films typically emerge from independent filmmakers and are distributed through alternative venues. Underground films frequently tackle taboo subjects, exploring themes of sexuality, politics, and the supernatural, often using experimental styles that distinguish them from more commercial offerings.
Resa – I thought at least The Blair Witch Project would be mentioned. Apparently that is considered an experimental film, but not underground. Do you think “The Blair Witch Project” is an underground film?
Matt – The actual filming style of Blair Witch, absolutely. But unlike most underground films it became a massive commercial hit, so not entirely ya know.
Andy Warhol made over 600 underground films between 1963 and 1968.
Resa – Sleep is apparently one of, if not the most famous of Andy Warhol’s underground films. What do you think of it? Of Andy’s underground films in general?
Matt – I think they suck. Sleep is a 5 hour film of someone doing just that. A tedious and boring film. I’d rather watch any film by Underground Auter Kenneth Anger which can be at times tedious as well but at least there is variety in his work.
Matt – I met underground filmmaker John Waters 4 times in my life.
Resa – OMG! How did I miss John Waters for this post? Love his films. He was more Underground at the beginning, but even his later more commercial films held much quirkiness.
Matt – I auditioned for the Ricky Lake version of Hairspray in ’87.
Resa – Okay , now that is just plain cool. I shook his hand once. I was in an admiring crowd.
Matt – I met him at a showing of my favorite film of his Female Trouble in 1996 in Philly. He was guest speaker at a local arts business expo in 2004 as well as a talk he did in 2010.
Resa – When I saw Polyester, I laughed myself sick. Divine was hysterical. The budget was as low as the set’s ceiling. The boom mic showed in most shots.
Matt – The dude is filmmaking hero of mine.
Here are 2 of Matt’s underground films I enjoyed and you might, too.
Matt – Ronald was the 3rd and more polished part of a trilogy of shorts I made with some friends in 1987 & 1990. This film from 1999 was an experimental improv film made with local actors & my late parents.
Running time 5 minutes.
Resa – I really like Remembering Ronald, Matt! Suffocation, below, is completely different, and I liked the message.
Matt– The story is about a guy bummed about not being able to get with various women and feeling all depressed till he is visited by a future self and given a scarf that helps relieve his depression.
Music by Matt Snyder – Running time 3.5 minutes
About Matt
GHOSTS
Some stood up for what they believed in.
Some were targeted by hate.
Some died young from disease.
We walk among you.
We will NOT be eradicated.
Some of us have become Ghosts, but no matter how hard you refuse to see us, we will remain,
Alive, Heard & Seen
- By Matt Snyder ©
Straight & Slightly Bent
Resa – Matt, Thank you a bazillion for being here today!
Matt – Thanks for the opportunity, Resa!
Graffiti Lux Art & More 
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