Underground Art

On By ResaIn Interviews, Underground Art

With Artist Matt Snyder

© Matt Snyder

The Tate Museum says “The term underground art is used to describe a subculture of art, like graffiti art or comic strip art. Wiki says ” any form of art that operates outside of conventional norms in the art world, part of underground culture.

Resa – Matt, what do you say to those definitions?

Matt – Either definition works. The wiki def is more encompassing to include **Poetry Chapbooks one of which I get in the mail & **Zines (which I was also part of in the 90’s) which surprisingly still exist.

© Matt Snyder

It Began in a Time Warp

All I did was turn into an alley and was instantly transported into the past. The newest graffiti was 15 years old.

Mr. Natural?

Underground Comix and Publications

COMPARE THE MR. NATURALS

Having recently had a comments chat with Matt about underground comix, I was like OH, Matt would love this alley. I sent him a couple of pix, Mr. Wonderful and the one below.

Matt – Oh cool, those look like the work of Ralph Bakshi & R.Crumb.

Resa– Matt, the R. Crumb work was obvious to me, but I honestly didn’t know who Ralph Bakshi is. I looked him up and was wide-eyed that he directed the Fritz the Cat movie and that Fritz is an R. Crumb character. I guess you knew that?

Matt – My life used to revolve around watching as many movies as I could, I was aware of Fritz the Cat the movie but because it was X-Rated it was never readily available in any movie rental house. Wasn’t until Blockbuster Video did mail rentals in 2004 when I finally had a chance to see Fritz and other cool controversial Bakshi films like Coon Skin & Heavy Traffic.

Resa – When did you discover these 2 artists? How did they influence you?

  • More characters from the alley

Matt – In regards to Bakshi, I had a book called The Psychotronic Encyclopedia of Film from the 80’s that introduced me to a lot of films that were far from mainstream, and I remember reading about Fritz the cat. This same book introduced me to the early films of John Waters, too.

As for Crumb maybe the late 80’s early 90’s ? I used to frequent comic shops and had an extensive collection of mainstream & underground comix. The underground comix were tucked away and you had to ask to see them. I bought a few that featured the work of R. Crumb.

I can’t pinpoint how these artists were an influence. Influence is strong word. I wrote a 3 part post on artists I admire but that’s not the same as influence. I suoppose there are times when I am trying to push the controversial button with some but not all of my work. 

Resa – I loved The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers comix. Were you also a fan of Gilbert Shelton? Did his work have any effect on you?

Matt – I became a fan of The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers pretty recently. I just really dug the humour (pot head no less, coming from a never used square like myself)

Resa – You said you get a Poetry Chapbook in the mail . Is it a particular author or publisher? Do you consider online Chapbooks an underground art form?

Matt – I subscribe to punkpoet.net  by an author/artist named JB who occasionally snail mails out haiku comics for free. I love getting old school mail. I’ve never come across an online chapbook, unless you mean a poetry blog but it can’t be on a platform like WordPress, it has to be it’s own thing. 

There’s still lots happening with **Poetry Chapbooks. Click on the pile beside to learn a bit about them and their history!

Resa – So Matt, please tell us about your experience with Zines? If it’s online, is it still a Zine?

Matt – Again I suppose blogging could come across as a Zine but I don’t know I don’t see using the internet as a means of going against conventional methods to be considered underground in any way. In the 90’s I was active in submitting poetry to multiple small press poetry zines as well as publishing my own (which included comics and short stories as well as poetry.)

**Zine (short for “magazine” or “fanzine”) A self-published booklet created for personal expression. Their history spans from the 1920s Harlem Renaissance, to the 1970s DIY Punk scene, and beyond.

Matt – Sadly I don’t have any of the 6 issue run of “Toxic Shock and other abnormalities of the inner being.” Yeah, quite a mouthful for a title, it was co-edited with 2 different people the first 5 issues done in 1992 with Rob H. and the final 2 done in 1995 with Sara M.

*Some libraries collect Zines. The Boston Public Library has more than 945 Zines.*

Graffiti

“If the paint is not from a spray can, it’s not real art.”

Resa – Supercilious words from hard core graffiti artists, but when it comes to graffiti art and much wall art, I think there’s truth to that. What do you think about that, Matt?

Matt – As opposed to what, like a wheat paste up ? Is Graffiti truly art?  I find myself drawn to character based graffiti over throw-ups and tags. Essentially I prefer what is known as street art, ya know.

Resa – Above is a pic of a bunch of tags and throw-ups, from Graffiti Alley. I look at the entire composition, and it looks like a community art piece to me. Does it look like art to you?

Matt – No, to me it looks hella sketch. Like I’d be looking over my shoulder every minute to make sure I wasn’t gonna get jumped.

A common classic style of graffiti art is writing, aka burners or lettering.

Resa – The building owners in Graffiti Alley welcome the graffiti. However, if it’s not welcome, if it’s vandalism, is it art? This includes tags, cartoons, lovely artworks or burners .

Matt – Vandalism is vandalism. Any unwanted piece is just plain wrong in my book. Does the crime deserve a hefty penalty to include jail time ? No I think it should be a misdameanor with a hefty fine. But again, vandal graffiti is definitely more befitting as being classified as underground.

Artist: Nick Sweetman

Resa – If there is no underlying political message, is it “true” graffiti art?

Matt – I don’t see that as being a necessity to make it “true” art. Art is pretty subjective, ya know.

An artist acquaintance recently smacked a paste-up on my home. Paste-ups come in many styles.

Paste-up by Andrew 01

Resa – I know it’s not on a wall, but I adore some of your art that seems a paste-up style. Am I right to think that, based on the examples below?

Matt – I suppose maybe you could say that about collage in general but I wouldn’t go as far as to say my work is a pasteup style, because I hadn’t heard of that term until I saw it on yours an another U K. graffiti blog I follow.

  • Artworks © Matt Snyder
  • Screenshot

Resa – A lot of the alley graffiti artists are Tattoo artists by trade. Are tattoos underground art?

Matt – Tattoos were definitely once Underground, but not anymore. I don’t know when it shifted but I recall only shady characters had prison tattoos and with military personnel it seemed to be a right of passage. Eventually that shifted into metal/punk bands.

But now in the present ? It’s gone mainstream. Hell half the people at my job, which is mostly populated by women, all sport one or more tattoos.

I enjoy the images below. They convey a lot of movement, and feel like a fusion of graffiti street art (not graffiti tags & throw-ups) & cartoon art.

  • Art © Matt Snyder
  • Some of Matt’s art reminds me of street art, some his own unique brand of cartoon art..

Many say AI will be the end of human created art forms for commercial purposes, and beyond.

Could survival instinct drive creators and their arts Underground?

I do not consider Murals to be graffiti art. I consider them to be wall art.

Resa – So, Matt, I found this mural the other day. The colours were fab, and I liked the Day of the Dead theme.

Click on the pic to read about why residents and mural artists are upset about “Fake Art “

Resa – Something bothered me about the art, so I checked around on line when I got home. Turns out it’s an AI generated image printed on a film and applied to the wall. My heart sank.

Muralist Sarah Blostein quickly noticed inconsistencies. Elements like the teeth, hands & guitar strings looked like an algorithm created the work rather than a human artist. 

Resa – My 2 part question is -In your opinion, (1) Can any of the arts and its creators survive AI on a commercial level? (2) Is there a possibility of a Renaissance Underground Art movement on the horizon?

Matt – I don’t freelance on a commercial level to be able to answer that question. As A.I. art is less than perfect, I initially was against it, but sometimes use it to accompany poetic work on my blog. As of now I don’t see it as a major threat. As for a Renaissance? Possibly if creators become fed up with how irrelevant they become.

Artists Who Matt Admires

© Matt Snyder

Matt did 3 articles on artists he admired. I chose 4 who have not previously been mentioned in this article, and asked him to comment on them.

ROY LICHTENSTEIN

I was aware of Pop Artists when I was in high school in the 80’s. I was also an avid comic collector. I loved that Lichtenstein didn’t just recreate comic panels with his own wry humour in the thought & dialogue balloons of the character but he also recreated the dot printing process in large format. That aspect of his work made me interested in trying creative techniques. I wish I still had it But I did an ode to Lichtenstien Medium sized acrylic painting and injected my own weird sense of humor into the thought balloon of the woman in distress.

GARY LARSON

Larson’s The Far Side the petfect example of a twisted sense of humour. I’d say both my written and drawn sense of humour was derived from an appreciation of this short lived syndicated comic.

TIFFANY ARPDALEO

Tiff’s art I am in love with. I have a few prints as well as clothing of her abstracts. I tried abstract painting, but they always came out like a mess as opposed to a work of art. I wish I could lay down paint like she does. I am a super fan and super impressed by everything she does.

SALVADOR DALI

Dali being a surrealist was just the epitome of being weird in my opinion. But I didn’t just like his paintings I fell in love with the french surreal silent film he made with Luis Bunell. Un Chien Andalou or An Andalusian Dog. That scene of a close up of a woman’s eyeball being sliced with a straight razor, the sfx from that time period were incredible and a bit of an influence of the short films and animations I made.

Underground Films

Curious, I found Un Chien Andalou, and watched it.

Resa – So Matt, I enjoyed this 20 minute silent film. With all the death, blood and gore in so many popular action films, Iv’e been desensitized. Yet, the eyeball slicing scene is crazy shocking. Why do you think that is?

Matt– I think it’s because of the time period of which the film was made. Practical effects have always been superior to me over C.G.I. What (slicing the eye of a dead slaughterhouse cow) they used to create that illusion done in extreme close up no less, is quite jarring.

Resa – However, I’m not sure I understand the film. What do you make of it?

Matt – It’s meant to be nightmare. To push buttons in people. It is made without a narrative on purpose.

Resa – I searched underground films on line. I was shocked at the results: Pulp Fiction, Fight Club, The Matrix, Mulholland Drive and others I consider big budget films. What do you say to this?

Matt – I saw that so called list of ” Underground” films on IMDB.com but the true definition I found through further research is as follows:

Underground film refers to a category of motion pictures that diverge from mainstream commercial cinema, prioritizing personal artistic vision over broad audience appeal. Often characterized by low budgets and unconventional techniques, these films typically emerge from independent filmmakers and are distributed through alternative venues. Underground films frequently tackle taboo subjects, exploring themes of sexuality, politics, and the supernatural, often using experimental styles that distinguish them from more commercial offerings.

Resa – I thought at least The Blair Witch Project would be mentioned. Apparently that is considered an experimental film, but not underground. Do you think “The Blair Witch Project” is an underground film?

Matt – The actual filming style of Blair Witch, absolutely.  But unlike most underground films it became a massive commercial hit, so not entirely ya know.

Andy Warhol made over 600 underground films between 1963 and 1968.

Resa – Sleep is apparently one of, if not the most famous of Andy Warhol’s underground films. What do you think of it? Of Andy’s underground films in general?

Matt – I think they suck.  Sleep is a 5 hour film of someone doing just that. A tedious and boring film. I’d rather watch any film by Underground Auter Kenneth Anger which can be at times tedious as well but at least there is variety in his work. 

Matt – I met underground filmmaker John Waters 4 times in my life.

Resa – OMG! How did I miss John Waters for this post? Love his films. He was more Underground at the beginning, but even his later more commercial films held much quirkiness.

Matt – I auditioned for the Ricky Lake version of Hairspray in ’87.

Resa – Okay , now that is just plain cool. I shook his hand once. I was in an admiring crowd.

Matt – I met him at a showing of my favorite film of his Female Trouble in 1996 in Philly. He was guest speaker at a local arts business expo in 2004 as well as a talk he did in 2010.

Resa – When I saw Polyester, I laughed myself sick. Divine was hysterical. The budget was as low as the set’s ceiling. The boom mic showed in most shots.

Matt – The dude is filmmaking hero of mine.

Here are 2 of Matt’s underground films I enjoyed and you might, too.

Matt – Ronald was the 3rd and more polished part of a trilogy of shorts I made with some friends in 1987 & 1990. This film from 1999 was an experimental improv film made with local actors & my late parents.

Running time 5 minutes.

Resa – I really like Remembering Ronald, Matt! Suffocation, below, is completely different, and I liked the message.

Matt– The story is about a guy bummed about not being able to get with various women and feeling all depressed till he is visited by a future self and given a scarf that helps relieve his depression.

Music by Matt Snyder – Running time 3.5 minutes

About Matt

© Matt Snyder
About: The Artist known as M.

GHOSTS

Some stood up for what they believed in.
Some were targeted by hate.
Some died young from disease.
We walk among you.
We will NOT be eradicated.
Some of us have become Ghosts, but no matter how hard you refuse to see us, we will remain,
Alive, Heard & Seen

                                                            - By Matt Snyder ©
Straight & Slightly Bent

Resa – Matt, Thank you a bazillion for being here today!

Matt – Thanks for the opportunity, Resa!

154 thoughts on “Underground Art”

  1. What an interesting discussion with Matt! I had no idea that alley graffiti artists are often tattoo artists by trade — that is fascinating! And what Matt said about art being subjective is so intriguing, and I totally agree! It must be great to have the freedom to convey whatever message you want as an artist. I haven’t seen “The Blair Witch Project” but I remember it being very popular when I was at school (I’m a bit too scared to watch it, tbh!). Thanks so much for sharing; I really enjoyed this! 🦋💜😊

    1. Thanks Ada!
      Matt is fab to work with. As usual, this took me time to put together, and Matt was fast on his part. Nonetheless, I am happy it’s finally posted and also happy with the results.

      I always get subjective and objective confused. Yes, art is definitely subjective.

      I think as an artist, and that includes writers, expressing yourself, what you think/feel no matter what people say is important.

      I’m thrilled you enjoyed this!
      Yay! 🌟❦💐❦🌟

  2. Pingback: Underground Art – iMartist

  3. An interesting and wide-ranging discussion! I didn’t watch the Bruñuel clip because I’ve seen it. There are definitely online chapbooks and zines. Probably most are not “underground,” though some may be. They usually are viewable on the site and are often downloadable as pdfs, too.

    I’ve heard some fun interviews with John Waters on Fresh Air.

    1. Fresh Air on NPR? That sounds cool. John Waters is one of a kind.
      I do get the point about how “Underground” can something be if it’s online.
      I would think it would have to be like Matt says, not on a blog platform.

      Hey, I’ve been meaning to ask, have you read any poetry that you think/feel was AI generated?

      1. Yes, Fresh Air on NPR. There were a few interviews. I remember one where he talked about hitchhiking across the US.

        Recently someone wrote a weird comment on one of my poems. I couldn’t tell if it was a problem with English or AI, and when I checked out his site, I suspected the writing was AI. I put his comment in spam.

        1. Hitchhiking is a different kind of road trip.
          I hitchhiked from Miami to Winnipeg (Manitoba, Canada) when I was 22.
          OMG! Theres a flood of memories. I sure kept those Underground.
          Fascinating time. I had to throw myself out of a rolling semi rig onto a grassy slope to escape danger.

          Interesting about the comment. I’ve had a couple. I have trashed some that could be human, and spammed the others.

                1. Thank you, Merril!
                  I think I’ve had a fab life. I was stuck in S. America for a year.; passport and $$ were stolen. You haven’t lived until you’ve hitchhiked down there.

                  A bit after that, I put myself – worked my way through college. All that craziness made me see how lucky I was, and I all I had to do was work hard.

    2. Waters is definitely a pip. I am always quoting lines from the 1974 film Female Trouble. More people know more about Pink Flamingos but Female Trouble is hilarious if you are into a myriad of taboo subjects 😅

    2. Thanks Dave!
      The alley that was “back in time” felt… nice, comforting.
      I didn’t want to leave the past, and go home to the future… now.

      Anyway, bringing the old underground comix home, and expanding it into this chat with Matt has been a terrific experience.

  8. Great interview. As an aside, when my oldest sister started college in the late 70s, she gave my brother a large stack of underground comics for Christmas with things like Zippy and the Freak Brothers,as well as R. Crumb. Somehow in the mid 80s I inherited about 6 of them – I think my brother and I somehow accidentally swapped boxes of belongs because i was missing a bunch of stuff. Anyway, I think I was 14 when i started reading underground comics lol.

    1. Thanks Trent!
      I was in my 20’s when I stared reading UG Comix.
      I still love “Fat Freddy’s Cat” the most.
      “The Attack of the Cockroaches” is beyond hysterical!

      Do you still have the 6 comix?

      1. Fat Freddy’s Cat is great.

        By the time I moved into my first house in the 90s it was down to 2. I assumed my brother took them back at some point, but he said he never had them. the 2 I still had were not my favorite. One was just an odd story, but the other was political cartoons of 1977, but from an underground comic point of view, i.e., anti-government left wing that was often more emotion than fact. I last remember seeing them about 15 years ago, though it may have been 20…

    1. Thank you, Brad!
      It’s been great collaborating with Matt on this topic.
      It’s amazing how R. Crumb leaked into the main stream.
      I say leaked, as he never became main stream.
      What a great alley I stumbled into that started this conversation.

      1. Idk ya sure about that ? He did afterall do a graphic novel on The Book of Genisis from the Bible. Granted not without controversy in regard to the sex.

          1. Underground gotta stay underground ya know not be on the New York Times best seller list and be on exhibition at the 2013 55th International Venice Art Biennale.

            1. Agree! I did not know that it made the NYT list.

              That’s how I think/feel about Waters, as he did make some very overground films.
              Still, it does not take away from his earlier work, or make that earlier work accepted overground. (lack of a better word)
              Could I say the same about Crumb?

    2. I just reviewed a book on my blog called Tits & Clits 1972-1987. A collected volume of all 7 issues of the all Women created Comix as well as the story behind the two women who created it.

  11. What a great interview Resa and Matt!! I LOVE that alley full of fun, colorful characters! It’s fascinating to learn about the various comics, most of which I’m not familiar with. When I was a kid, I was really into Tintin comics (by Herge from Belgium) which I still read to this day sometimes. I didn’t know ‘Zine’ is short for magazine, again fascinating stuff!

    The Zelenskyy Ukraine wall art is incredible; even the eyes are expressive. 

    As a graphic designer (albeit more in the commercial world), I think the threat of AI is real, but then again, machines have no souls, and soulless art is NOT real art to me.

    Beautiful art, poetry and great discussion, Matt! Thank you, Resa, for this stunning post!! ❤ ❦ ♡ ♥

    1. My brother who is 5 years older than me (b. 1965) was into Tin Tin. I that comic as well, moreso than the crap live action film.

    2. Thank you, Ruth!
      I’m so happy Matt & I did this post. I adore all art, but do have my faves, and not so muches.

      I adore old paintings with beautiful women in gowns, and crazy graffiti alley art the most. Yes, there are a lot of tags and throw-ups, but then suddenly there’s this amazing piece in the middle of it, like the Zelenskyy painting, or Daisy (last post) .
      Or sometimes made up cartoons. Or.. colourful abstracts or.. well, street art moves me.

      Yes, AI has almost destroyed my hubs income ability. He hates it with a passion, and I get it.

      Soulless art is not for me either, but when it comes to the bottom line … why pay an artist when most customers don’t know the difference?

      This is why I think there could be a fabulous underground art(s) movement in the future.

      Ruth, thanks for reading and for this great comment! ❦💐❦💐❦

  14. Hi Resa, this post is very interesting. I’ve never heard of underground art before. The definition is intriguing and I know I would never create it. I just don’t create like that. I have tried to do a few different and less realistic artworks but they just don’t work for me. I have seen Horror zine magazines on Amazon. With the new $10 printing policy now, I don’t know if they are still viable 💜

    1. I do like a lot of underground art.
      I love graffiti art (not so much tags and throw-ups)
      I get a kick out of the underground comix. I still love Fat Freddy’s Cat.
      Also, you’d be surprised at how relevant social commentary used to be in the underground comix.
      $10.00 printing policy. What will bezo’s think of next? He really needs the money so I guess it’s a good idea. (facetious)
      ❦💐

      1. Hi Resa, underground comix sound like the British pantomimes which included a lot of social and political commentary in the guise of humour. I have been to a few in the UK but don’t always understand all the humour because I don’t know all their societal issues. Yip, we wouldn’t want the shareholders to starve so that people could read well priced books.

        1. Interesting, Robbie!
          I don’t know the British Pantomimes, but they sound interesting. Yes, one does have know the issues to understand satire.
          Yes, the shareholders must not go hungry! 🤭

  17. What an interesting conversation with Matt. I feel like I just took an art class! It’s amazing how familiar some of this is to me on the surface, but all the deeper thought, inspiration, and intention are things I hadn’t considered. I’ll be back to read more. Thanks Resa and Matt for the wonderful interview.

    1. Thanks Diana!
      Matt is an interesting person.
      Yes, I agree, surface familiarity can have a lot of depth. Perhaps because of the familiar nature, we don’t look deeper?

      Thank you for taking the time to check out the post, and your wonderful comment!

      1. I think the history and artistic movements add a lot of depth to cultural and sensory impressions. Just like knowing the history of a 16th century artist adds depth to her work. It’s fascinating seeing that at play in the context of street art.

  18. What an amazing collaboration you two and dahlin, that was by no means an easy post to create! I enjoyed every bit of it! Thank you both!

    Resa: you’ve got a slobberies call, get ready! xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo🐾❤️

  19. Resa and Matt – a brilliant conversation that allowed me to gain a greater understanding of underground art. I love how Matt expanded the definition to include poetry chapbooks and zines—those quiet, often handmade expressions that carry so much spirit and urgency. This conversation confirmed how essential underground art is to our world, offering a space for voices and visions that don’t always fit within mainstream frameworks. I believe that this is where raw creativity, resistance, and cultural memory live. Resa – your space it a place where art remembers us. You continue to shine a light on artists who shape culture from the edges, not the center—and in doing so, you’re helping me see creativity in its rawest, most authentic form.

    1. Rebecca,

      Thank you!

      I miss so many comments. I rely on that annotator thing in the top right, too much. Please accept my humble and tardy reply.

      Ohh, I like “artists who shape culture from the edges, not the center”.

      I feel so honoured to be in that thought. Truth is, I like being here in the raw/war.

      Fascinating how many words spelled backwards are poignant.

      Again, thank you! Big hugs!

  21. Resa, this must have taken a ton of your time But it is the most amazing COOL collaboration on comics, on art, on ….everything but the kitchen sink…in the best way possible. I LOVE it. It is so alive, brilliant and buzzing xxxxx

    1. Shey,

      Thank you!!!!! (It did take some time, and Matt was great)

      OH NO! I forgot the kitchen sink! 🤭😉

      Rebecca called it the edges of art. I love it here!

      xxxxxxxxx

  22. Such an entertaining discussion , I enjoyed this. The art is fascinating, learned a lot and recall some of the older art from the eighties. Nicely done Resa and Matt !
    ❤️

  23. A fascinating discussion about the underground scene! I remember Fritz the Cat. He was a wicked, wicked feline, albeit very funny. I really enjoyed “Remembering Ronald.” What a hoot!

      1. Aww I really enjoyed taking part. I am very eclectic soul so this really gave me an opportunity to talk about a lot of things I know.

    1. Ahh, thanks Janet!
      I do mean to art educate with some of my posts. So, I am thrilled you enjoyed, and maybe learned something! 😀

  26. Wow, Resa and Matt this was so much fun and nostalgic remembering when. This was quite a post with such great commentary between you and the street art was phenomenal. Interesting dialogue. Do you think Resa, we might have to jump on board some with AI? I mean, I can’t avoid but still don’t press the button saying yes to AI but soon might have to.. ugh.. Tim keeps showing us how we can enhance our work.. IDK.. Love the clips and poetry.
    These lines struck me: “Some of us have become Ghosts, but no matter how hard you refuse to see us, we will remain,
    Alive, Heard & Seen

    Thanks you two!
    💓🙌🏽

    1. Thanks Cindy!
      Working with Matt has been a fab experience.

      AI..not for me . I don’t need to use it, and am not inspired to.
      I would not bother reading poetry if I knew o thought it was created by AI. How Soulless! It’s thief poetry.

      How would you feel/think, if the poem of the year on Spillwords sounded a lot like one you wrote, but was by a faux poet who created it using AI?

      Tim’s AI work is cool, to a point, but it’s not that impressive to me. It’s good, not amazing.
      Tim’s original lyrics and Teagan’s voice are what work for me.
      AI art is so homogenized looking, right now it all starts to look the same… boring.
      I actually prefer Tim’s non AI productions, but I like everything he does.

      AI will grow, and soon white collar jobs will be replaced. They say up to 20% in the next year. Where will those people go for work?

      Perhaps they will be needed to pick fruit, as there won’t be as many immigrant farm workers.

      Facetious, sort of.
      Me, I’m excited to continue producing 100% original works and let AI predict forest fires before they happen (which it can actually do) Help secure our countries and homes, and all other things AI does that I’m happy about.

      Maybe an AI president would be good!
      LOL!

      Luv ya Cindy!
      xo💖🌹❦

      1. Ok I’m starting from the bottom here…. An AI president might be better that we programmed 😂 if I do say so myself!

        I agree with you on all accounts. I’m just noticing I have to dodge it but soon I think it will be into our computer module just like Google. I don’t know. Like you I will be the last holdout and I’m not a fan and will go down kicking and shouting. I could, however, be obsoleted.
        I wouldn’t like if someone took my stuff and did that in any way shape or form totally with you here ! As for Tim, I love whatever he does and you’re right he never needed it but it sounds like he’s having fun!
        You’re so welcome lots of love to you too!!!
        happy weekend !
        🩷

        1. 😂😂- Yes, an AI president….

          I wonder what the world will be like for kids born today?
          Anyway, love Tim’s music, and I know he has Arthritis in his hands, so playing guitar is not fun. Here, AI is very useful.

          We may have a need one day.

          Obsoleted? Never! That’s when we become underground artists, and start the new art renaissance!
          🌹❦🌹🌟 Happy weekend!

          1. It will be better than we have now at least imho !

            I shudder to think! Yes, that’s a good thing and it’s good to know at least we can tend to our Art whatever that might be at the time you push comes to shove. In the meantime, we keep creating.
            🥰😘🥰

    2. I wrote that Ghost poem for Pride Month, for a hate filled government, and for a fellow blogger named Sadje who does a visual prompt.

  27. What a fabulous and interesting post. This whole world is so far out of my circle of knowledge! I always get a little smarter thanks to you, Sorceress! xoxoxoxo

    1. Dear Thunder,

      Thank you! What a lovely comment.

      One f the fab things about blogging is all the sharing, and we all get smarter.

      xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

  28. This is such a fascinating conversation, Resa and Matt! I’m going to read it again to let some knowledge sink in. I didn’t know what underground art was, but I learned a lot. And I love Matt’s words at the end. So profound. As for AI, I’m not a fan. Maybe things will change, or maybe we’ll have to roll with the change. Anyway, thanks to both of you for this awesome post! 💖💖💖

    1. Thank you, Lauren!
      I’m thrilled you like this post and our conversation. I’m even more thrilled if you learned something.

      We will have to roll with some AI changes. It’s not going away. It has great use for homeland and home security. It can spot forest and brush fires before they become fires. I hope they hurry that useful aspect up!

      Still, I read 10 – 20% of white collar jobs will be replaced by AI in a year. What will those people do?
      I’m sure something will evolve. It always does. In the meantime though?

      Anyway, I an a happy camper doing my art my way. Kids born today will be living a a completely different world than we did/are.

      Sending much love and hugs! xoxo🌹❦🌹🌟

      1. You’re welcome, Resa, and it a nutshell, you took the words right out of my mouth. The pros and cons. The good is great, but the cons will affect lives. Sigh. Anyway, I’m glad you’re a happy camper, and I am too. I’ll do my own writing, ‘thank you very much’ and continue to focus on the good things in life. Much love and lots of hugs back to you! ❤️🌻❤️

  29. Seriously, I nominate this as post of the year!👏 It’s a great interview with Matt, full of interesting information, I love all the links, clips, videos, well done both of you!! And thank you so much for the mention, it is heartwarming to be recognized by people that I also admire!😊

    1. LOL!
      🌟💥🎉🎉POST OF THE YEAR🎉🎉💥🌟
      Matt will love that!
      I love it.
      Thank you Tiffany! You are an amazing artist!

  32. Very interesting post and discussion Resa and Matt, well done! Learnt a lot about underground art and glad you covered various aspects of it.

    As for AI I’d say we will adjust to it and who knows we might see some new underground art forms going forward – as long as people remain in the same vibes as original ones!

    Have both a fabulous week!!

    1. Thank you, Marie!

      I’m thrilled this post is being well received. I’m a huge fan of art in the street, which is not mainstream, but not underground. The graffiti and art with political messaging is underground art.

      I love it all, underground and overground.

      I am thinking, yes, humanity will adjust (no choice). However, because AI art is soulless, I am excited for a human art renaissance.

      Have a great week!

  33. Wow… From Crumb to Buñuel to “fake art”… I hadn’t heard about Crumb in years… He’d probably be sent to El Salvador now…

    And about AI generated stuff printed and pasted on a wall… How lazy can one get…

    Be good Resa.

    1. Hahahahahaha! Yes, how lazy!
      OR no talent or ability so have found a way to pretend you have talent and ability by using AI, thereby cheating a real artist out of making a living.
      Outdoor art helps to support a lot of artists in Toronto.
      SO, a Canadian died in ICE detention the other day. 49 years old, and was on medication that he did not get in detention.

      I’ll be good, unless……xo

      1. One of the 2 French news mags I subscribe to, has started to produce AI illustrations, probably to save a buck. Ugly.
        That’s terrible. ICE is the new SS… Shame on them. Eventually, the culprits should all be prosecuted… Starting with the entire cabinet…

          1. Yeah, I read about that… They also passed their shameful bill. I can only see sickness everywhere. Now, the Sultan wants to arrest the winner of the Democratic primary in NY? When is he going to arrest Chuck Schumer?

            1. Chuck is on his way out, and the sultan has bigger fish to fry… and I do mean fry!
              There are already several sitting elected officials facing bogus charges.
              We are all waiting for him to arrest Gavin Newsom. (who should be president)

              1. I know, I know… Sometimes, I think of all the dictators we “knew” in some of the countries we lived in, and I feel so sorry for the American people… And us neighbours… (We won’t be spared…)

                    1. What’s wrong wth people?

                      “American rapper Kanye West has been blocked from entering Australia over a song glorifying Nazi leader Adolf Hitler.

                      Australia’s home affairs minister Tony Burke revealed that his department had cancelled West’s valid visa after the song Heil Hitler was released in early May.”

                    2. Kudos to the Aussies…
                      What’s wrong? It’s just human evil curbed down for so many years after WWII, that’s emerging again… When the “upper class” steals, cheats, lies, how do you want those “under” or around to behave? A convicted felon has been elected to the most powerful job in the world. And now he puts “criminals” in cages?
                      (I didn’t know about that song. 🙄)

                    3. Unbelievable ugliness.
                      Don’t people like Kanye realize that in a hitler world anyone not blonde and blue eyed will have to be eliminated? The he and his would be terminated?
                      Being Jewish is the tip of the iceberg, in that world.

                      Planet is over crowded.

                      Hey.. Mexico has rated #10 on the new world happiness meter. Congratulations!

                    4. I’m going to Europe next week. Thinking of unsubscribing to all my media, French and American for a month… This is all getting to my head…
                      #10? Well, that’s one of the technical problems with multinational problems. Different cultures respond differently to the same scales. e.g. “How happy would you say you are on a 5-point scale from “extremely happy to extremely unhappy?” latin countries such as Mexico always answer higher than other cultures… Now the fact here remains that there are 40,000 homicides a year in Mexico. With South Africa, it is one of the most dangerous countries in the world…

                    5. Enjoy yourself! Still, I don’t think unsubscribing will prevent the info from seeping in. Europe is under attack from the US and Russia. It’s all too, big. Although, it will soften the blows if you just ignore the media.

                      Gee have fun, my friend. Are you going for a whole month? I’m sure to be seeing a lot of fab images when you get back!

                      Re: happiness, it just goes to show happiness is in the heart and spirit, and Mexico has A LOT of that.
                      Bon Voyage!

                    6. Thank you Resa. I know information always seeps in. Yet, i did switch it off in February when we were in Asia, and it was a relief. We’ll see.
                      I’ll try to bring back a few good pix… (and we’ll be in touch via WP. That is always a breath of fresh air…)

  34. Fabulous interview Matt and Resa. Very educational. And argh, artists in every form, including writers are facing just the early battles with A.I. and BS. It makes me think – we all know when we’re being read to by A.I. voice in books and videos, and the one thing they can’t offer are emotions. Just as they scrape our books and put all their scrapings into an A.I. written book that is still stolen. Isn’t A.I. art just the work of other artists scraped from the net from OTHER people’s creations? Is there any truth left in this world? Hugs Resa 💜💙❌⭕❌

    1. Thanks Debby!
      It was a blast working with Matt on this post.

      Yes, AI is basically an intellectual property vacuum.
      I read 10-20 % of white collar workers will be replaced by AI in the next year.
      Perhaps they will pick the crops that immigrants won’t be able to do any more.

      It can also predict forest fires before they start. Why aren’t the powers developing that?
      No one knows where this will end up, but many sci-fi writers have warned us.

      Sending love!
      💜💙❌⭕❌

      Yes Debby, there is truth between friends, in small realms. Truth is not a general aspect of humanity.

      1. Yes, wouldn’t it be nice if we lived in a world of honesty and not greed using evil to steal from others instead of using these technologies for the betterment of mankind. 💜💚 Love back your way xox

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